流水线上生产的战列舰——标准战列舰设计建造始末
本帖最后由 go229 于 2011-11-28 18:33 编辑20世纪30年代,法国海军的战斗序列里出现了一型这样的战列舰:它的体量很小,27500吨的标准排水量是列强战列舰中最小的,甚至连很多地区性海军强国的战列舰都比他庞大;2座富于浪漫气息的4联装主炮全部布置在舰体前部,显得另类而又富于艺术气息,在这些炮塔上装备着令任何敌人胆寒的施耐德330毫米主炮;它的兄弟众多,仅在法国海军中就有10艘之众,在近邻荷兰、传统盟友波兰、红色苏联,都有它的同型舰和改进型的身影,哪怕是在万里之外,太平洋之滨的智利,也有它的同型舰出没。这就是法国海军的敦刻尔克级战列舰,而在法国海军内部,它有一个独一无二的称谓:标准战列舰。缘起:标准战列舰思路的最初谋划1919-1920 1910年,法国制定了近乎疯狂的海军扩充计划:到1918年,要为海军建造28艘战列舰和战列巡洋舰!为此,法国海军先后开工了4艘孤拔级、3艘布列塔尼级和5艘诺曼底级战列舰。但是由于一战的影响,除了孤拔级和布列塔尼级得以完工之外,5艘诺曼底级没有一艘以战列舰的形态完工(1艘航空试验舰,4艘货轮)。这就直接导致一战结束后法国海军的新型战舰数量严重不足,而且由于速度和机动力的不一致,不同型号的战列舰之间的配合显得十分困难。 这时,美国海军的标准战列舰思路进入到了很多海军军官和船舶设计时的视野中。统一的火炮,统一的航速和机动能力,在不同种类的战列舰之间协同困难的法国海军看来是那么的诱人。于是,对标准战列舰的讨论也就逐渐的展开,这种讨论最开始的时候只是在中级军官和设计师们之间进行,但是,逐渐的,海军高层也参与到这场讨论中来,其直接的结果是,1920年,海军发布了关于设计新式战列舰的要求,而这一要求中明确提到,新式的战列舰必须容易批量建造。漫长的选型:海军究竟需要什么样的战列舰?1920-1926 海军1920年的要求对新式战列舰的性能限制很模糊,并指出这个要求之所以下达并非是出于立刻建造战列舰的目的,而是要为未来的战舰建造进行必要的技术储备。于是,许多设计师提出了自己的方案,其中法国海军方面比较中意的下面这3种:小型案:2.65万吨,8门330毫米炮,设计速度29.5节,(史实敦刻尔克号设计)1924年提出,代号斯特拉斯堡;重型案A(甲案):3.85万吨,8门380炮,设计速度28节,1924年提出,代号黎塞留;重型案D(丁案):3.7万吨,8门406L50炮,设计速度32节,1925年提出,代号狄德罗,战列巡洋舰侧视图:水线处:侧视剖面:缶室:炮塔: 但是这一时期的法国海军并未对这些设计明确表态,一方面是因为他们认为,替代老舰的新式战列舰只要在1930年左右设计完毕即可,现有的战列舰可以用到1935年,而到那时,条约中对单舰吨位的限制将会消失,在这段时间内,可能会出现更好的设计。另一方面,海军内部对新战列舰的期望也并不相同。当时当政的海军高层更青睐重型方案,而后来发展成为新绿水学派的一批中高层更青睐小型方案。两排人马各执一词,没有达成共识。法兰西号事件与标准战列舰计划的最终定案:1926-1929 1926年发生的“法兰西”号战列舰失事事件,暴露了法国现有战列舰的一系列缺点,并由此引发了法国海军高层的政治地震。这对标准战列舰的最终定案产生了重要影响。 愤怒的议会决定追加海军预算,并催促海军尽快进行战列舰的更新;而新任海军高层对近战乱战、高航速和鱼雷的热衷又导致小型方案的原案中29.5节的设计航速显得有些落后;而华盛顿条约规定主力舰单舰吨位不得超过35000吨的限制又使得重型案被迫淘汰出局,因为条约必须被遵守。几方面的共同作用下,造成了法国海军的标准战列舰的最终定案。敦刻尔克级标准战列舰流水线上生产的战列舰:同门16舰(1929-1935) 1929年,法国议会在经济发张势头良好的情况下通过了了为期十年,总投资高达200亿法郎的军备建设案(1925年通过的连续10年,每年投入2亿法郎的防线建设计划不在此款项之内),其中对海军的装备拨款中,多达10艘的敦刻尔克级标准战列舰赫然在列。同时,被标准战列舰的物美价廉所吸引,紧邻荷兰率先发出2艘该型舰的订单,红色苏联也订购了一艘用以熟悉4联装火炮的设计与运用。随后,远在南美的智力又订购1艘动力加强版的改进型。而正在努力发展海军实力的波兰,也看中了性能优异敦刻尔克级,但是他们希望获得35000吨的战舰。为此,法国设计师在敦刻尔克级的基础上延长了舰体,在舰尾增加了一座主炮塔,改进了上层建筑物的结构,最终于1932年完成了设计,并于1933年在法国工程技术人员的指导下于波兰本土开工建造这样2艘具有法国血统的战列舰。法制波兰12门356炮战列舰侧视剖面:装甲布置: 三种亚型一共17艘战列舰,构成了史上空前绝后的庞大战列舰家族。 而在标准战列舰选型中落败的另外两型设计,也各自有着自己的归宿:1925年设计的406毫米炮高速战巡,几经周折,在结合了惊世骇俗的穹甲装甲盒设计之后,发展成为标准排水量高达4.35万吨的30节快速战列舰,法制406炮战列舰:侧视剖面:缶室:炮塔:1924年设计的380炮战舰,发展为1933年版的黎塞留,并在此基础上演化出了一型削弱了装甲,强化航速的“巡洋领舰”,并为西班牙所采购。当然,这些都是后话了。 {:78:} 图片编辑完毕{:61:} 高卢海军打算咸鱼翻身{:72:} 回复 复仇怒吼 的帖子
呵呵,必须咸鱼翻身啊{:63:} 不回复,不解释{:63:} 回复 小胡子 的帖子
{:81:} 本帖最后由 STG44突击步枪 于 2011-11-26 20:45 编辑
我又忍不住出来吐槽了static/image/smiley/SC/81.gif
用屁股想想就知道4.3万吨能不能造得出来,天顶星反重力科技{:72:}
等重代换
http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww113/shengda/150303od8o808ohfeoyxto.jpg
回复 STG44突击步枪 的帖子
406炮战列舰, 法国 战列舰 laid down 1937
Displacement:
40,819 t light; 43,540 t standard; 45,441 t normal; 46,962 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(832.92 ft / 820.21 ft) x 118.11 ft x (29.53 / 30.31 ft)
(253.88 m / 250.00 m) x 36.00 mx (9.00 / 9.24 m)
Armament:
8 - 15.98" / 406 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2,442.72lbs / 1,108.00kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1934 Model
2 x 4 row quad mounts on centreline, evenly spread
16 - 5.12" / 130 mm 50.0 cal guns - 70.97lbs / 32.19kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
3 x 4 row quad mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
1 raised mount
2 x 2 row twin mounts on sides, forward deck aft
60 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 70.0 cal guns - 1.73lbs / 0.79kg shells, 450 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
15 x 4 row quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 20,781 lbs / 9,426 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 15.7" / 400 mm 492.13 ft / 150.00 m 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 92% of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces
Main Belt inclined 20.00 degrees (positive = in)
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:
5.91" / 150 mm 492.13 ft / 150.00 m 36.09 ft / 11.00 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 85.30 ft / 26.00 m
- Hull void:
0.00" / 0 mm 0.00 ft / 0.00 m 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15.7" / 400 mm 7.87" / 200 mm 15.7" / 400 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
- Protected deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 7.48" / 190 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 13.78" / 350 mm, Aft 5.91" / 150 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 158,848 shp / 118,501 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 7,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,422 tons
Complement:
1,556 - 2,023
Cost:
?23.309 million / $93.237 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 4,070 tons, 9.0%
- Guns: 4,070 tons, 9.0%
Armour: 19,810 tons, 43.6%
- Belts: 6,676 tons, 14.7%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 3,881 tons, 8.5%
- Armament: 1,710 tons, 3.8%
- Armour Deck: 7,004 tons, 15.4%
- Conning Towers: 540 tons, 1.2%
Machinery: 4,247 tons, 9.3%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 12,532 tons, 27.6%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,622 tons, 10.2%
Miscellaneous weights: 160 tons, 0.4%
- Hull below water: 50 tons
- Hull void weights: 20 tons
- Hull above water: 50 tons
- On freeboard deck: 20 tons
- Above deck: 20 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
67,173 lbs / 30,469 Kg = 32.9 x 16.0 " / 406 mm shells or 14.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.28
Metacentric height 10.0 ft / 3.0 m
Roll period: 15.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.38
Seaboat quality(Average = 1.00): 1.02
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a ram bow and a round stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.556 / 0.560
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.94 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28.64 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 69
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 30.00%,25.92 ft / 7.90 m,21.65 ft / 6.60 m
- Forward deck: 40.00%,21.65 ft / 6.60 m,21.65 ft / 6.60 m
- Aft deck: 15.00%,13.12 ft / 4.00 m,13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00%,13.12 ft / 4.00 m,13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Average freeboard: 19.61 ft / 5.98 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 96.4%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 160.9%
Waterplane Area: 67,990 Square feet or 6,316 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 98%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 210 lbs/sq ft or 1,023 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.06
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
这么多数据,注意这个:Armour: 19,810 tons, 43.6%
- Belts: 6,676 tons, 14.7%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 3,881 tons, 8.5%
- Armament: 1,710 tons, 3.8%
- Armour Deck: 7,004 tons, 15.4%
- Conning Towers: 540 tons, 1.2%
还有这个:Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 15.7" / 400 mm 492.13 ft / 150.00 m 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:
5.91" / 150 mm 492.13 ft / 150.00 m 36.09 ft / 11.00 m
- Protected deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 7.48" / 190 mm
自行换算,彪悍的人生不需要解释 STG44突击步枪 发表于 2011-11-26 20:42 static/image/common/back.gif
我又忍不住出来吐槽了
用屁股想想就知道4.3万吨能不能造得出来,天顶星反重力科技
主装和平甲的计算除了水下部分正确,水面以上怎么得来的? 很震精么?
只要你敢画,就能算出来。障眼法是无用的!{:17:}
http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww113/shengda/150303od8o808ohfeoyxto-1.jpg
还有这个:Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 15.7" / 400 mm 492.13 ft / 150.00 m 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:
5.91" / 150 mm 492.13 ft / 150.00 m 36.09 ft / 11.00 m
- Protected deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 7.48" / 190 mm
还真以为SPS在手,天下我有啊!作掩耳盗铃状!{:63:}
回复 STG44突击步枪 的帖子
相当震惊,因为跟我的设计完全不同。我的设计时主装甲带是400毫米高6米,但是实际情况是350毫米高2.5米,400毫米高2.5米的2段,则节约下来的两段装甲为2.5米50毫米高,400毫米1米高的两段。TDS相当于是130毫米高6.5米,我设计的是150毫米高11米,节约下来了150毫米高4.5米的一段和20毫米高6.5米的一段。那150毫米高4.5米的和400毫米高1米的富裕装甲共同构成了260的那一段45°斜面。而其他剩余的装甲则构成了40毫米那层反向穹甲。以上是我的数据来源,不知道你的数据怎么来的{:78:} 回复 STG44突击步枪 的帖子
不错那就是个软件,可是这个软件对装甲重量的计算是令人信服的。我本人不是学造船的,对专业的造船设计仅知皮毛,相信坛子里的群众也没几个人是专门学造船的或者工程的,我们这帮半吊子自己计算的结果还不如这SPS准确。现在是,我用这个数据进行解算,得出了可以接受的结果,然后我根据这个结果进行简单几何演变。如果步枪用专业的计算结果现实这个不可能实现,请赐教。 你把723毫米主装4.5米,130毫米TDS6.3米,190毫米甲板输入SPS,看看能算出什么结果
如果实物和账目都不一致,那还玩什么SPS? 回复 STG44突击步枪 的帖子
有了723的主装就没办法有190的穹甲了,这点要搞清楚{:78:} 本帖最后由 go229 于 2011-11-26 22:53 编辑
回复 STG44突击步枪 的帖子
那么请问,有那种软件能够模拟我这种装甲结构?
至少我在未增加总重的情况下,修改了布局形式,在装甲重量一节上,不会有任何超出。
go229 发表于 2011-11-26 22:48 static/image/common/back.gif
回复 STG44突击步枪 的帖子
有了723的主装就没办法有190的穹甲了,这点要搞清楚 ...
你还真太高看SPS了,SPS压根就没有计算穹甲重量的能力,那个选项只是一种说明性文字的罗列罢了。SPS只能折算最简单的装甲盒!
如果你要算装甲重。OK,没问题,请转换成我标注的模式。不管多么复杂的装甲结构,只要截面图正确,那么都能最终算出折算厚度!
如果要玩SPS,那么就好好遵从他的游戏规则,而不是总挑对自己有利来搞,否则就真成天顶星战舰了!
本帖最后由 STG44突击步枪 于 2011-11-26 23:31 编辑
好好吐吐槽,出口恶气{:81:}
评评你SPS中的谬误!{:17:}
406炮战列舰, 法国 战列舰 laid down 1937
Displacement:
40,819 t light; 43,540 t standard; 45,441 t normal; 46,962 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(832.92 ft / 820.21 ft) x 118.11 ft x (29.53 / 30.31 ft)
(253.88 m / 250.00 m) x 36.00 mx (9.00 / 9.24 m)
Armament:
8 - 15.98" / 406 mm 50.0 cal guns - 2,442.72lbs / 1,108.00kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1934 Model
2 x 4 row quad mounts on centreline, evenly spread
16 - 5.12" / 130 mm 50.0 cal guns - 70.97lbs / 32.19kg shells, 250 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
3 x 4 row quad mounts on sides, aft evenly spread
1 raised mount
2 x 2 row twin mounts on sides, forward deck aft
60 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 70.0 cal guns - 1.73lbs / 0.79kg shells, 450 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1932 Model
15 x 4 row quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 20,781 lbs / 9,426 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 15.7" / 400 mm 492.13 ft / 150.00 m 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 92% of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces (SPS会针对你动力大小和主炮等火力设定情况,自行算出一个同时代默认长度,并与之比较,看主装能否覆盖所有弹药库和引擎舱长度。当然,这个你可以狡辩动力系统好,我认了,记住这个长度——150米!)
Main Belt inclined 20.00 degrees (positive = in)
- Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:
5.91" / 150 mm 492.13 ft / 150.00 m 36.09 ft / 11.00 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 85.30 ft / 26.00 m
- Hull void:
0.00" / 0 mm 0.00 ft / 0.00 m 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 15.7" / 400 mm 7.87" / 200 mm 15.7" / 400 mm
2nd: 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm
3rd: 0.79" / 20 mm - -
- Protected deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 7.48" / 190 mm
- Conning towers: Forward 13.78" / 350 mm, Aft 5.91" / 150 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 158,848 shp / 118,501 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 7,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,422 tons
Complement:
1,556 - 2,023
Cost:
?23.309 million / $93.237 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 4,070 tons, 9.0%
- Guns: 4,070 tons, 9.0%
Armour: 19,810 tons, 43.6%
- Belts: 6,676 tons, 14.7%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 3,881 tons, 8.5%
- Armament: 1,710 tons, 3.8%
- Armour Deck: 7,004 tons, 15.4%
- Conning Towers: 540 tons, 1.2%
Machinery: 4,247 tons, 9.3%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 12,532 tons, 27.6%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,622 tons, 10.2%
Miscellaneous weights: 160 tons, 0.4%
- Hull below water: 50 tons
- Hull void weights: 20 tons
- Hull above water: 50 tons
- On freeboard deck: 20 tons
- Above deck: 20 tons
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
67,173 lbs / 30,469 Kg = 32.9 x 16.0 " / 406 mm shells or 14.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.28
Metacentric height 10.0 ft / 3.0 m
Roll period: 15.7 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.38
Seaboat quality(Average = 1.00): 1.02
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
a ram bow and a round stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.556 / 0.560
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.94 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28.64 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 69
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 30.00%,25.92 ft / 7.90 m,21.65 ft / 6.60 m
- Forward deck: 40.00%,
21.65 ft / 6.60 m,21.65 ft / 6.60 m
- Aft deck: 15.00%,
13.12 ft / 4.00 m,13.12 ft / 4.00 m (For and Aft decks 占总长度55%,前面舰长250米,55%是多少?137.5米!也就是说,连个150米的完整装甲盒都无法构成,水平装甲还缺了一块,剩下12.5米是是露天的,牛逼了!)
- Quarter deck: 15.00%,13.12 ft / 4.00 m,13.12 ft / 4.00 m
- Average freeboard: 19.61 ft / 5.98 m
Ship tends to be wet forward
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 96.4%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 160.9%
Waterplane Area: 67,990 Square feet or 6,316 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 98%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 210 lbs/sq ft or 1,023 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.06
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
STG44突击步枪 发表于 2011-11-26 23:25 static/image/common/back.gif
好好吐吐槽,出口恶气
评评你SPS中的谬误!
难道你的船首尾没有堵头么?