前辈们能不能推荐一下比较靠谱的海武网站？NW的资料不够

kantukantu

前辈们能不能推荐一下比较靠谱的海武网站？
NW的资料只有1880以后，以1890以后的为主，之前的最早只看到一个毛子的1877式9寸炮。
想了解一下克虏伯260mm，法国M1870式190mm，M1870式140mm这些以及早一些的初代后膛炮资料，苦于找不到。

有没有哪位前辈可以赐教？帮忙指条路，谢谢了。

踏雪无恨

如果你知道想要找的火炮的英文名字。那英文维基也有不少资料，比如你说的这几款火炮。英维和法维都有

蒸汽装甲舰

如果觉得网上资料不够给力的话可以考虑买一本复刻版布拉塞海军年鉴。

LeSoleil

两款法国炮。

kantukantu

蒸汽装甲舰 发表于 2014-4-8 18:52
如果觉得网上资料不够给力的话可以考虑买一本复刻版布拉塞海军年鉴。

这个有点高端了，一时半会搞不定，自己先修炼修炼再试试。
网上只看到一本1932年的，其他版本没看到，以后再找找。

kantukantu

LeSoleil 发表于 2014-4-8 20:47
两款法国炮。

多谢前辈赐教！

拧脖子慢慢研究中。

我靠

LeSoleil 发表于 2014-4-8 20:47
两款法国炮。

请问cal下面的符号该怎么理解呢？

kantukantu

我靠 发表于 2014-4-9 09:38
请问cal下面的符号该怎么理解呢？

个人猜测是火炮膛线的缠距,
上面的分子O是表示转一圈，下面分母的数字应该是长度，表示多长距离转一圈，而不应该是多少倍口径，否则炮弹出膛了还转不到一圈，不可能吧。
不知对不对。
图片的分辨率不太高，放大了看不太清。

我靠

kantukantu 发表于 2014-4-9 12:33
个人猜测是火炮膛线的缠距,
上面的分子O是表示转一圈，下面分母的数字应该是长度，表示多长距离转一圈，而 ...

我也不知道，不过你说的有道理

mathewwu

我靠 发表于 2014-4-9 09:38
请问cal下面的符号该怎么理解呢？

请参考海武译制区《火炮的定义》有关Twist of Rifling也就是有关火炮膛线的缠距一节：

http://www.warships.com.cn/thread-4075-1-1.html

kantukantu

mathewwu 发表于 2014-4-9 21:51
请参考海武译制区《火炮的定义》有关Twist of Rifling也就是有关火炮膛线的缠距一节：

http://www.zhanl ...

按NW的说法，下面那个分母是倍径。
可是，就拿图中的M1870式140mm炮来说，上面分子是O，下面分母是30，
炮的口径5.46英寸，炮膛长度115英寸，整个炮的全长才123英寸。
21倍口径的炮，转一圈要30倍径？？？炮弹都出膛了还转不到一圈，不可能吧。

图中带有这个符号的炮都只有十几二十几的倍径。

个人猜测30会不会是指30cm或30英寸？

NW的说法是否只针对后来的新炮？不适用于初代的老式线膛炮？

我靠

mathewwu 发表于 2014-4-9 21:51
请参考海武译制区《火炮的定义》有关Twist of Rifling也就是有关火炮膛线的缠距一节：

http://www.zhanl ...

多谢

我靠

kantukantu 发表于 2014-4-9 22:16
按NW的说法，下面那个分母是倍径。
可是，就拿图中的M1870式140mm炮来说，上面分子是O，下面分母是30，
...

兄弟，你从那看出来是21倍径的，我怎么没找到啊

kantukantu

我靠 发表于 2014-4-10 08:41
兄弟，你从那看出来是21倍径的，我怎么没找到啊

自己计算的啊，115英寸/5.46英寸=21.06

mathewwu

kantukantu 发表于 2014-4-9 22:16
按NW的说法，下面那个分母是倍径。
可是，就拿图中的M1870式140mm炮来说，上面分子是O，下面分母是30，
...

NW的定义就是英美军方火炮教范的定义, 凡是与其他非英语国的定义有冲突的都会在条目中指明, 而这些定义是按火炮历史沿袭下来的.

kantukantu

mathewwu 发表于 2014-4-10 13:18
NW的定义就是英美军方火炮教范的定义, 凡是与其他非英语国的定义有冲突的都会在条目中指明, 而这些定义是 ...

要是这样的话就难以理解这个符号了。
炮弹发射到出膛真的只能转个大半圈？
还是说这个符号有别的意义？伤脑筋。

mathewwu

kantukantu 发表于 2014-4-10 13:37
要是这样的话就难以理解这个符号了。
炮弹发射到出膛真的只能转个大半圈？
还是说这个符号有别的意义？伤 ...

你有没有查过, 较高倍径的新式火炮其缠度有没有相对高出很多?

kantukantu

mathewwu 发表于 2014-4-10 15:06
你有没有查过, 较高倍径的新式火炮其缠度有没有相对高出很多?

吴老，我在NW上查到的海军炮均匀的基本都在1in25到1in35之间，从19世纪末到20世纪末都没太大区别，
陆军的一些反坦克炮倒是有1in40+的。步枪的缠距倒是可以从很短到很长不等，但是口径小，枪管够长，一般都足够弹转几圈再出去。
其他的比较零散，但也没见到太离谱的。
有些中文数据也不太敢信，大家都是粘贴复制，

依然一头雾水中。

kantukantu

mathewwu 发表于 2014-4-10 15:06
你有没有查过, 较高倍径的新式火炮其缠度有没有相对高出很多?

英文的维基上解释rifling：
Rifling is the process of making helical grooves in the barrel of a gun or firearm, which imparts a spin to a projectile around its long axis. This spin serves to gyroscopically stabilize the projectile, improving its aerodynamic stability and accuracy.
Rifling is often described by its twist rate, which indicates the distance the rifling takes to complete one full revolution, such as "1 turn in 10 inches" (1:10 inches), or "1 turn in 254 mm" (1:254 mm). A shorter distance indicates a "faster" twist, meaning that for a given velocity the projectile will be rotating at a higher spin rate.

The combination of length, weight and shape of a projectile determines the twist rate needed to stabilize it – barrels intended for short, large-diameter projectiles like spherical lead balls require a very low twist rate, such as 1 turn in 48 inches (122 cm).[1] Barrels intended for long, small-diameter bullets, such as the ultra-low-drag, 80-grain 0.223 inch bullets (5.2 g, 5.56 mm), use twist rates of 1 turn in 8 inches (20 cm) or faster.[2]
In some cases, rifling will have twist rates that increase down the length of the barrel, called a gain twist or progressive twist; a twist rate that decreases from breech to muzzle is undesirable, as it cannot reliably stabilize the bullet as it travels down the bore.[3][4] Extremely long projectiles such as flechettes may require impractically high twist rates; these projectiles must be inherently stable, and are often fired from a smoothbore barrel.

Twist rate
For best performance, the barrel should have a twist rate sufficient to spin stabilize any bullet that it would reasonably be expected to fire, but not significantly more. Large diameter bullets provide more stability, as the larger radius provides more gyroscopic inertia, while long bullets are harder to stabilize, as they tend to be very backheavy and the aerodynamic pressures have a longer "lever" to act on. The slowest twist rates are found in muzzleloading firearms meant to fire a round ball; these will have twist rates as low as 1 in 72 inches (1,800 mm), or slightly longer, although for a typical multi-purpose muzzleloader rifle, a twist rate of 1 in 48 inches (1,200 mm) is very common. The M16A2 rifle, which is designed to fire the 5.56x45mm NATO SS109 ball and L110 tracer bullets, has a 1 in 7-inch (177.8 mm) or 32 calibers twist. Civilian AR-15 rifles are commonly found with 1 in 12 inches (304.8 mm) or 54.8 calibers for older rifles and 1 in 9 inches (228.6 mm) or 41.1 calibers for most newer rifles, although some are made with 1 in 7 inches (177.8 mm) or 32 calibers twist rates, the same as used for the M16 rifle. Rifles, which generally fire longer, smaller diameter bullets, will in general have faster twist rates than handguns, which fire shorter, larger diameter bullets.

kantukantu

mathewwu 发表于 2014-4-10 15:06
你有没有查过, 较高倍径的新式火炮其缠度有没有相对高出很多?

NW自己的说法：他只说在自己的网站里都只用倍径表示缠距，
Twist - Rifling grooves make a spiral towards the gun muzzle.  The length of the barrel necessary for the grooves to make one complete revolution is called "Twist." This is usually expressed in calibers but sometimes appears in measurement units (inches or meters).  On my data pages, Twist is specified in calibers, with "RH 1 in 25" meaning that, when looking at the top of the barrel from the breech end of the gun, that the spiral goes in a right-hand direction and that it takes 25 calibers for the grooves to make one complete revolution.  Depending upon the internal ballistics desired, the spiral may be of a uniform pattern, where the angle of inclination remains constant throughout the bore, or it may be of a parabolic pattern with the twist increasing as it nears the muzzle.  The steepness of the twist is related to the length and weight of the projectiles fired.  Twist is intended to make a projectile spin at a stabilizing rate as it exits the barrel.  Generally speaking, a longer, heavier projectile must spin faster than a shorter, lighter projectile in order to remain stable in flight.