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VT引信可否被干扰

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一等兵

八年服役纪念章

发表于 2015-4-24 12:55 | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式
在次元舰队见过这样的桥段,美军雷达频率被得知,而被对应的箔条干扰,那VT呢?会被干扰提前被引爆(比如在大机群前面弄架炮灰专门撒箔条)效率反而不如定时引信。另VT可变换频率以提高防干扰不?再另20mm 40mm都是固定距离自爆吗?可调节吗?

上士

十二年服役纪念章

发表于 2015-4-24 14:37 | 显示全部楼层
20 40都是碰炸的吧?还有箔条都是全频谱的吧?

一等兵

八年服役纪念章

 楼主| 发表于 2015-4-24 15:43 | 显示全部楼层
cxy1223 发表于 2015-4-24 14:37
20 40都是碰炸的吧?还有箔条都是全频谱的吧?

碰到炸那是当然,我指的是不碰到炸的时机,满天空的高炮黑云不会都是碰炸吧
据我所知不同长度的箔条干扰不同频谱的雷达

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发表于 2015-4-24 17:23 | 显示全部楼层
cxy1223 发表于 2015-4-24 14:37
20 40都是碰炸的吧?还有箔条都是全频谱的吧?

20 40的HE弹都是碰炸没错。

40炮的HE弹因为最大射程超过二战防空队形的舰间距离,怕掉下来伤及友舰,所以弹尾曳光药烧完后就会点燃炮弹本体的爆炸药自毁。自毁距离美制的定在5000码,英制的从3000 - 7000码不等,德制也有10.5秒燃烧时,换成距离也在6-8000码。

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发表于 2015-4-24 17:43 | 显示全部楼层
VT引信可被干扰,但不是被动感应,而要主动发射电波诱发。

延伸阅读:

Electronic countermeasures

A move to develop countermeasures against proximity fuzes stemmed from the Germans, who during the "Battle of the Bulge," captured an Army munitions dump that contained a large number of the new radar proximity-fused shells. Concerned that the Germans might attempt to copy the proximity fuze, the Research Division of the Aircraft Radio Laboratory at Wright Field, along with the help of the RLL, was called in begin the development of jamming equipment. Lieutenant Jack Bowers, an engineer with the Aircraft Radio Laboratory at Wright Field, recounted the following to Alfred Price:

"The proximity fuse had been a closely guarded secret on our side. Even though we had been working on countermeasures for a long time, we at Wright Field had never heard of the device. Now we were asked to investigate, on a crash basis, the possibility of a jammer to counter the fuse. We asked why such a jammer had not been developed earlier, and were told that the developing agency had conducted tests and concluded that the fuse could not be jammed! We worked on the problem, and within two weeks, a jammer had been built which would detonate the proximity fuses prematurely."

Since the body of the shell served as the antenna for the radar proximity fuse, it limited the frequency spread of the transceiver from 180 to 220 MHz. The APT-4, a high powered jammer, already covered that part of the spectrum. A motor-driven tuner was added to sweep the jamming transmitter’s signal up and down the band theoretically covered by the fuze. Several modified APT-4’s were installed in a B-17, and a top priority full scale test was arranged at Eglin to see whether the countermeasures would be effective.

Price, in another interview with Lieutenant Ingwald Haugen, one of people involved with the test, Haugen tells him:

"For the firing test, the Army sent a battery of 90 mm anti-aircraft guns. These were emplaced near Eglin. We had requested that during the test the guns would fire VT (proximity fused) shells with spotting charges, so that when the fuses operated, the shells would burst with only a puff of smoke. We were told this was not possible. The VT fuse was about 1 1/2 inches longer than the normal mechanical fuse and it would not fit in a shell carrying a spotting charge. So, we were going to have to use live high explosive VT fused shells for the test. As a safety measure, the guns were to be offset by a small angle, initially 30 mils (about 1.7 degrees), later decreased to 12 mils (about .6 Degrees)."

"It was the sort of test that would never be allowed today under the prevailing flight safety guidelines. At the time, however, there was a war on, and the small risk to our one aircraft had to be weighed against the far larger risk to our whole bomber force if the Germans used such a weapon against us. We who were to fly the test were confident we would be all right - we hoped that the jamming would work as planned, and if it didn’t, the offset fed into the guns would burst the shells at least 240 feet away from us at a range of about 20,000 feet."

"The test lasted about 3 months, during which about 1,600 VT shells were fired, individually, in our direction. Sitting in the fuselage of the B-17, the two RCM operators could pick up the radar transmissions from the shells coming up. The VT fuse radiated CW (continuous wave) signals, but the projectiles would often yaw a little in flight. This, in combination with the spin of the shell, would modulate the signal. We in the back could not see out, but the pilots and the navigator would get a kick out of watching the shells burst well below, or if there was a late burst because the jamming had taken some time to sweep through the shell’s frequency, it might explode close to our altitude. The general conclusion of the test was that, modified to radiate CW swept across the VT fuse band, the APT-4 jamming could significantly reduce the effectiveness of the proximity fused AA shell."

Extracts from The Radio Proximity Fuze - A survey,  By Edward A. Sharpe Archivist, SMEC (c) (now SMECC c.2003)

一等兵

八年服役纪念章

 楼主| 发表于 2015-4-24 22:42 来自手机 | 显示全部楼层
mathewwu 发表于 2015-4-24 17:23
20 40的HE弹都是碰炸没错。

40炮的HE弹因为最大射程超过二战防空队形的舰间距离,怕掉下来伤及友舰,所 ...

受教了,那双76机关枪有没有这个自爆机制,有的话编队防空射程优势如何体现,vt又能被干扰,如果不用Vt效率如何体现,虽然单发威力大,但射击密度大大不如,另现代防空导弹好像也有近炸,应该有反干扰措施吧,可否介绍下,比如变频,频率可发射时设置

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发表于 2015-4-25 17:15 | 显示全部楼层
297130289 发表于 2015-4-24 22:42
受教了,那双76机关枪有没有这个自爆机制,有的话编队防空射程优势如何体现,vt又能被干扰,如果不用Vt效 ...

现代近炸欠学。

双76的HC弹可同时装弹鼻及弹底引信,弹鼻装VT时弹底可装碰炸成为双重爆炸机制。但二战以及50年代美军应没有自毁的VT及碰炸,所以只有对海对陆会用双重爆炸机制,VT引信防空弹干脆不装碰炸,射失后就变成啞弹,以减少对己方的可能损伤,另外舰队防空射界也要协调控制以避免误击。至于射速和破片威力范围是计算过的,至少对付末期的特攻战术要胜过40mm。

一等兵

九年服役纪念章

发表于 2015-4-25 22:21 | 显示全部楼层
请教一下吴老,永远的蛋里面超低空贴海飞行干扰vt蛋有多大的可信度?

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发表于 2015-4-26 19:14 | 显示全部楼层
IreneFan 发表于 2015-4-25 22:21
请教一下吴老,永远的蛋里面超低空贴海飞行干扰vt蛋有多大的可信度?

VT最小诱发距离是20米,加上海面水气对电波的干扰,低飞有助躲避VT。不过零蛋逼近到2海里以内127炮座基本反应不及,根本不会开火,这一段已是波夫斯的管区,所以大米水手骂VT不管用是编剧故意黑大米的科技。但是贴海飞行是要技巧的,而且高度和航向都不能随意机动,也是防空炮的好靶子。

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十一年服役纪念章

发表于 2015-4-26 19:33 | 显示全部楼层
mathewwu 发表于 2015-4-26 19:14
VT最小诱发距离是20米,加上海面水气对电波的干扰,低飞有助躲避VT。不过零蛋逼近到2海里以内127炮座基本 ...

问一下主炮对超低空掠海的敌机尤其是鱼雷机齐射,可以靠水柱干扰其投弹路径吗?
此生愿为和平基石

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发表于 2015-4-26 20:32 来自手机 | 显示全部楼层
Sam10113 发表于 2015-4-26 19:33
问一下主炮对超低空掠海的敌机尤其是鱼雷机齐射,可以靠水柱干扰其投弹路径吗? ...

如果火控系统有能力控制水柱爆炸位置,就有能力控制弹幕爆炸位置。

上士

九年服役纪念章

发表于 2015-4-27 07:39 | 显示全部楼层
Sam10113 发表于 2015-4-26 19:33
问一下主炮对超低空掠海的敌机尤其是鱼雷机齐射,可以靠水柱干扰其投弹路径吗? ...

我只见过用副炮制造水柱的,没见过用主炮的

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十二年服役纪念章

发表于 2015-4-27 07:53 | 显示全部楼层
297130289 发表于 2015-4-24 15:43
碰到炸那是当然,我指的是不碰到炸的时机,满天空的高炮黑云不会都是碰炸吧
据我所知不同长度的箔条干扰 ...

箔条都是一小包各种长度的纤维,上面裹着铝箔,没有单一长度的箔条弹。

一等兵

九年服役纪念章

发表于 2015-4-27 10:31 | 显示全部楼层
mathewwu 发表于 2015-4-26 19:14
VT最小诱发距离是20米,加上海面水气对电波的干扰,低飞有助躲避VT。不过零蛋逼近到2海里以内127炮座基本 ...

永远的蛋里倒是把主角的飞行技巧吹得很神,跟队友训练的时候近距离被干结果子弹全部偏开了,队友声称此公假装直飞而实际上斜飞……

看起来艺术果然还是艺术啊

禁止发言

九年服役纪念章

发表于 2015-4-27 10:47 | 显示全部楼层
mathewwu 发表于 2015-4-26 19:14
VT最小诱发距离是20米,加上海面水气对电波的干扰,低飞有助躲避VT。不过零蛋逼近到2海里以内127炮座基本 ...

20米是多大口径的诱发距离啊?如果是76岂不是超出杀伤半径了?

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发表于 2015-4-27 10:57 | 显示全部楼层
Claret 发表于 2015-4-27 07:39
我只见过用副炮制造水柱的,没见过用主炮的

副炮仗着射速快在固定距离打出水柱幕其实也只能收威赫的效果,水幕距离远了敌机绕道而过,水幕距离近了敌机投雷跑了(雷击距离800-1000米)。

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发表于 2015-4-27 11:06 | 显示全部楼层
ligull 发表于 2015-4-27 10:47
20米是多大口径的诱发距离啊?如果是76岂不是超出杀伤半径了?

二战VT诱发距离有60 - 75 - 120英尺三种,前两种给3 - 5英寸等级火炮使用,120英尺的给6 - 8英寸等级火炮使用,不过空炸杀伤范围远大过地面炸的范围。

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九年服役纪念章

发表于 2015-4-27 11:17 | 显示全部楼层
mathewwu 发表于 2015-4-27 11:06
二战VT诱发距离有60 - 75 - 120英尺三种,前两种给3 - 5英寸等级火炮使用,120英尺的给6 - 8英寸等级火炮 ...

有没有76、114、127、133的vt弹杀伤半径?

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发表于 2015-4-27 11:21 | 显示全部楼层
IreneFan 发表于 2015-4-27 10:31
永远的蛋里倒是把主角的飞行技巧吹得很神,跟队友训练的时候近距离被干结果子弹全部偏开了,队友声称此公 ...

20米水平直线低飞的技巧当然是可能的,不过要转弯一定要先爬高,否则转弯时单边机翼倾侧损失浮力就要掉高度触水了。

假装直飞实际斜飞是机头指向不变的侧滑,这会损失速度,只能在关键时刻短暂闪避一下,但难度也不高。

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发表于 2015-4-27 11:37 | 显示全部楼层
ligull 发表于 2015-4-27 11:17
有没有76、114、127、133的vt弹杀伤半径?

没有杀伤半径数据。

没有特别制造的VT弹,都是标准HC/HE弹,可在弹鼻或弹底引信孔安装不同机制的引信,如碰炸,机械定时,药盘延时,甚至啞引信(做靶弹用)。二战VT只能装在弹鼻,而且可以通用在75 - 240mm口径的海陆火炮炮弹上。

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