PoW在丹麦海峡之战的炮术报告

LeSoleil

很有意思的一篇文献： http://www.hmshood.org.uk/reference/official/adm234/adm234-509guns.htm

PoW此战雷达全部趴窝，可以看到各种条件极不理想的纯光学火控下的炮术问题。

——可对比First Action前后两阶段与Second Action所采用的炮术策略（在测不太准的时候，用阶梯试射和分组射抓距离）
——英方对德国火炮散布及其与德国炮弹单带和寿命之关联的议论（德国炮弹的弹带咬膛线较英国炮弹紧，这样精度更好，但有损寿命）
——Second Action之半吊子纯光学远程炮战表现。
——英国火炮的输出效率问题（由74%提高到85%，PoW舰长事后主动要求军事法庭以澄清自己撤退非因作战不利，且称PoW后来已完全恢复状态）


摘几个比较好玩的地方：

5月24日凌晨接敌：

The ships were at an inclination of about 130° and Gunnery and Spotting Officers in the fore D.C.T. both agreed at the time that at long range Prinz Eugene (sic) looked exactly like Dunkerque when "X" and "Y" turrets were "merged" into the after superstructure.

（PoW：俾斯麦带着敦刻尔克杀出来了！）

The rangefinders failed to develop a satisfactory range plot before opening fire; the fore D.C.T. 15-ft rangefinder was the only rangefinder which had a reasonable chance; the closing rate was very high and "A" and "B" rangefinders were able to see the enemy's superstructure for a short time only before "table turning." Conditions for ranging on the enemy's masts were not easy. As a result it required two down ladders to find the target.

英方的高变距率接敌本是为了抵消防御劣势发扬火力优势，结果遏制了己方火控。只有前部指挥塔顶上的15尺测距仪能派得上用处，开火的前几轮齐射全是瞎打（全都射成远弹，再一点一点缩短来抓距离）。不仅如此，在三万码上开火的Second Action同样是炮塔测距仪观测无力，只能用指挥塔上15尺(4.5米)测距仪进行测距射击。但由于使用了更好的炮术策略（两轮分射为一组，前后分开，抓距离），效果较好。

对敌舰的观察：
All enemy cruisers and capital ships appear to have their large rangefinders mounted considerably higher than than in our ships. Provided vibration can be eliminated, this fact should be kept in mind in future designs of our ships.
DNC的脑残已经不值得再吐槽了。估计DNC的说法就是大测距仪放高了会震动不能用的，我们上面放个小的，长基线测距仪靠炮塔上自带的吧。结果不好用。这些人一看，哟呵，敌人不是大测距仪用得好好的么？



总的来说RN包括炮术在内的炮战战术水平是相当不错的（夜战甚至不比日军逊色，参见Warship今年的文章），但技术细节问题严重拖后腿。如果换上欧陆式的高度长基线测距仪，加强火炮可靠性，大概能有效提高作战效率。

LeSoleil

第一场射击情况：典型的阶梯射抓距离，先射远再一点一点拉回，细节很丰富。还有海况、航行姿态对火控与火炮射击的影响等问题。一战的经验似乎是先射近更好，而PoW却先射远弹，花了6轮齐射才缩短到正确距离。不知是测距实在太无力还是策略选择如此。

Salvoes 1 and 2 were spread for line, salvo 1 falling right and salvo 2 in line over. Salvoes 3 and 4 were fired as a down ladder and fell over. Salvoes 5 and 6 were fired as a further down ladder; 5 fell over and 6 straddled. It had been decided after Prince of Wales' last firing to use a 200-yard as opposed to a 100-yard zigzag, as the spreads were in the nature of 350 yards. Accordingly salvoes 7 and 8 were fired as a 200-yard zigzag about salvo 6's range. Both 7 and 8 were observed as over and salvoes 9 and 10 were fired as a regaining down ladder. Salvo 9 was seen to straddle, 10 short, and salvoes 11 and 12 were fired as a 200-yard zigzag about salvo 9's range. Both of these were spotted as short, and salvoes 13 and 14 were fired as a regaining ladder up: 13 appeared to straddle, 14 went over, and a further zigzag was fired with salvoes 15 and 16 about salvo 13's range; both of these appeared as short and salvoes 17 and 18 were fired as an up regaining ladder. The fall of shot of these salvoes is not certain, but it is probably that they went short; evidence of the Rate Officer's observations and settings and the fall of shot points to the fact that the enemy started altering away gradually at about salvo 14. Line was held throughout. A large line spread appeared temporarily in salvoes 11 and 12 and one or two shots fell ahead during this time. Spreads for elevation are not known, but it is thought that salvoes 17 and 18 were ragged as the ship was under full wheel at the time; the ship was listing heavily and it is known that there was considerable movement on both elevation and training pointers.

第二场远程射击，选择了以两组彼此相距的分射“括”住敌人、抓到距离的射击法。似乎恢复到了先射近弹的模式，但也只有指挥塔15尺测距仪可用，不知是有意选择还是只能如此：

24th May. - Fire was opened at Bismarck at 1846 at a range of 30,300 yards. The table was tuned to ranges obtained from the fore D.C.T. rangefinder and "fine inclination spotting rules" were adopted, each double salvo being spread one unit apart. Salvoes 1 and 2 both fell right; salvoes 3 and 4 were fired as a further line bracket and both fell in line and short. UP 800 was ordered and salvoes 5 and 6 were fired spread one unit apart. Both these appeared in line and over; the range was then 33,000 yards and check fire was ordered. Prince of Wales then turned towards and opened fire again at 1853.5, with salvoes 7 and 8 fired as a deflection double with the table re-tuned to the fire D.C.T. rangefinder. "Y" turret was not bearing after salvo 6. Again, both these appeared right, and salvoes 9 and 10 were fired as a further line bracket. Both appeared in line and short; UP 800 was ordered and salvoes 11 and 12 were fired spread one unit apart; 11 was observed right and 12 over. Fire was then ordered to be checked by C.S.1 as the enemy turned away and there was a danger of forcing him westward.

看起来还是有前途的。只是因为战术全局上的考量而中止了。距离越拉越大，凸显航速的战略意义。

mathewwu

沒法翻牆的可在此本地下載:

威尔士亲王号与俾斯麦号交战炮术报告（附海图）
http://www.warships.com.cn/thread-1575-1-1.html

akagizuo

丹麦海峡BSM的fumo也坏了，双方还真打了场原教旨的海战。双方25000-15000码之间的交战能力展现得很充分
不过之后24号傍晚18点-19点掩护欧根脱离和25号凌晨的第二和第三次接触，英德两国在30000码级别表现都比较糟糕，25号凌晨20000码即使有雷达辅助得到距离，但是由于敌舰烟雾，射击也无法持续。效果也不大，而且能见度不太好，看不到自己炮弹落点
丹麦海峡的纬度在5月底日照时间极长，夜里23点箭鱼都能像BSM发起攻击

24日2300时刻胜利号航母825中队拍摄的空袭BSM的照片，可见丹麦海峡此时光线还不错

akagizuo

LeSoleil 发表于 2015-8-8 11:31
第一场射击情况：典型的阶梯射抓距离，先射远再一点一点拉回，细节很丰富。还有海况、航行姿态对火控与火炮 ...

我觉得KGV第一次齐射不是故意打出远蛋的，根据英国30年代的远距离射击试验来看，15英尺的测距仪在25000码级别的测距精度在900码附近，第五次齐射才通过200码的ladder推到跨射是很正常的表现吧
英国确实忌讳一开始打远蛋，曾经分析过远蛋情况下可能观测不到蛋着点，连续出现wild shot，导致火控程序要推倒重来一次，并且提出了飞机校射是远战时纠正远蛋蛋着的很好的解决办法

LeSoleil

akagizuo 发表于 2015-8-8 23:31
我觉得KGV第一次齐射不是故意打出远蛋的，根据英国30年代的远距离射击试验来看，15英尺的测距仪在25000码 ...

200码是第一次跨射后分组扫射的区间，不是阶梯射的区间。后来那两组之间的小距离才是200码。这么单看图的话，前几论阶梯射的区间是很大的。500码以上估计是有了。

LeSoleil

akagizuo 发表于 2015-8-8 23:25
丹麦海峡BSM的fumo也坏了，双方还真打了场原教旨的海战。双方25000-15000码之间的交战能力展现得很充分
不 ...

俾斯麦首先向18km上的英国巡洋舰开火（当时英方最高指挥官坐镇巡洋舰），巡洋舰随后拉烟向PoW靠拢。俾斯麦向PoW射击的时间很短（数分钟内），随即转向脱离。随后PoW按照巡洋舰队的指令停止射击。

德国人以为这是完好的KGV，所以根本不想接战，虚晃一枪。而PoW也服从命令单纯跟踪，航速也无法主动求战。整个接触过程不过10分钟吧。PoW在如此糟糕的战况和硬件下（观察设备大概还不如欧陆巡洋舰）取得一个跨射的成果，炮术也算相当可以了。

不过连这个跨射都要靠巡洋舰报告，即便打出来也未必能妥善使用，进一步修正。要说的话，还是英国战舰观测平台过于低矮的劣势太大了。DNC脑残无药医。

akagizuo

LeSoleil 发表于 2015-8-9 00:46
俾斯麦首先向18km上的英国巡洋舰开火（当时英方最高指挥官坐镇巡洋舰），巡洋舰随后拉烟向PoW靠拢。俾斯麦 ...

第二次交战POW打了12次齐射41蛋，发射数量比第一次也就少了16发，而且交火时间达到12分钟，比第一次行动时间还长
按照DK Brown的说法，英国战列舰适用于在12000-18000码的决定性距离上KO对方的，整个战前进行过23000码以上射击试验的只有HOOD和两条老衲

LeSoleil

akagizuo 发表于 2015-8-9 01:25
第二次交战POW打了12次齐射41蛋，发射数量比第一次也就少了16发
按照DK Brown的说法，英国战列舰适用于在1 ...

第一次的接触也就10分钟。而且开火之后距离缩近，炮塔测距仪是可以参与火控的。

RN的一般战术水平足以支持远程交战吧，但硬件和各方面配套就不好说了。

akagizuo

LeSoleil 发表于 2015-8-9 00:46
俾斯麦首先向18km上的英国巡洋舰开火（当时英方最高指挥官坐镇巡洋舰），巡洋舰随后拉烟向PoW靠拢。俾斯麦 ...

BSM的第二场表现也很差，炮弹落点非常歪

akagizuo

还有一点很有趣
英国报告里还说在指挥仪里风太大，听不见传声筒里面传来的舰桥的指令。舰员想出来用“A direct sound power hand-set”来凑合，效果还不错，并推荐使用

mathewwu

akagizuo 发表于 2015-8-9 21:51
还有一点很有趣
英国报告里还说在指挥仪里风太大，听不见传声筒里面传来的舰桥的指令。舰员想出来用“A dir ...

英國佬窮瘋了，連一部備用的聲力電話也不肯裝？

akagizuo

mathewwu 发表于 2015-8-9 23:01
英國佬窮瘋了，連一部備用的聲力電話也不肯裝？

F. - Notes on Own Ship's Gunnery

Application of Spotting Rules. - These were applied successfully in the T.S. during the first action.
Cross-levelling gear. - This was used throughout both the first and second actions with success.
A.F.C.T., Mk IX. - The 14-in. table was run continuously for 32 hours and proved most reliable. The only incidents which occurred were as follows:-
During the first action after firing salvo 12, a heavy hit was felt on the starboard side and the director setting mechanical pointer was seen to be oscillating violently. At the same time a fuze was noticed to blow at the panel in the 14-in. T.S. The director setting control trigger was used to move off the mechanical pointer. On release, the pointer settled in line with the indicator pointer and no further trouble was experienced.
Immediately after the third action, the safety diaphragm in the air supply to the motors, blew with a loud report and the T.S. was filled with blue smoke caused by vaporised oil in the air system. A double diaphragm was inserted to prevent recurrence.
Communications between Bridge and D.C.T. - Great difficulty was found in using the voicepipe communication with the high wind blowing past the director. A direct sound power hand-set has now been rigged by ship's staff and is recommended for future construction.
General remarks on the behaviour of the 14-in. Turrets - During the working up period numerous minor mechanical defects have been experienced in spite of unremitting efforts on the part of the Ordnance staff, and during the operations against Bismarck this state of affairs persisted.
In the circumstances the output achieved might well have been lower. That this was not so was due to the continual efforts of the Ordnance staff and with one exception, to good loading drill in the turrets.

The presence in each turret of one of Messrs. Vickers Armstrong's erecting staff was of the greatest assistance.
————————————
吴老请看英国总结的第四条，POW起码丹麦海峡是没有正式在指挥仪安装声力驱动的耳机电话的，是船员门自己想办法搞得

owaii

在三万码上开火的Second Action同样是炮塔测距仪观测无力，只能用指挥塔上15尺(4.5米)测距仪进行测距射击。
---------------
测距射击是指射法还是单纯用测距仪测距？可能我对日式名词敏感了一点。变距射击才对吧。15尺测距仪的精度在30000码外完全无法指挥测距射击（测距射击至少要求测距仪本身精度要明显优于该距离的一般散布状况）。

另外修正量并非单纯的两齐射之间的射距离之差，在变距法下修正量是附加在火控系统算出的敌舰实时距离之上的。

另外200码的ladder是不可能的。这样两群弹着很可能会重合，根本谈不到抓距离了。

mathewwu

第一回合作战的200码确实不是测距射间隔的ladder，而是跨射（第6轮）后决定采取200码效力射间隔的zigzag（相当于美式的rock），即是以第6轮的距离（当然要加上时间变化率）为准，一轮加多200码一轮减少200码的连续来回扫射，结果两轮都是远弹，所以再用降阶（down ladder）重新试射（regain）。11和12轮的200码zigzag也是同样意思。

如同两位版主所说的，ladder的区间不会只有200码，应该有一个散布界，在当时的射程上是350码，所以zigzag也不用100码而改用200码。

LeSoleil

owaii 发表于 2015-8-10 10:41
在三万码上开火的Second Action同样是炮塔测距仪观测无力，只能用指挥塔上15尺(4.5米)测距仪进行测距射击。 ...

我只想表达只有15尺测距仪可以用.....

mathewwu

LeSoleil 发表于 2015-8-10 12:40
我只想表达只有15尺测距仪可以用.....

对A和C炮塔的高度来说，2万米上BSM桅杆桅楼都还在突出在水平线上啊，如果上浪不太严重，偏离中线30-40度的A炮塔测距仪应该可以用。

LeSoleil

mathewwu 发表于 2015-8-10 14:21
对A和C炮塔的高度来说，2万米上BSM桅杆桅楼都还在突出在水平线上啊，如果上浪不太严重，偏离中线30-40度 ...

报告里提到：

the fore D.C.T. 15-ft rangefinder was the only rangefinder which had a reasonable chance; the closing rate was very high and "A" and "B" rangefinders were able to see the enemy's superstructure for a short time only before "table turning." Conditions for ranging on the enemy's masts were not easy. As a result it required two down ladders to find the target.

这是描述开火前没能测到距离的情形（26000码距离）貌似是说因为距离变化率太高导致观测手不能稳定持续地盯住敌军？
高度太低导致上浪干扰也很有可能——高速行进中前炮组测距仪惨状：

mathewwu

LeSoleil 发表于 2015-8-10 14:24
报告里提到：

the fore D.C.T. 15-ft rangefinder was the only rangefinder which had a reasonable cha ...

啊啊啊啊啊！！！！！

LeSoleil

mathewwu 发表于 2015-8-10 14:58
啊啊啊啊啊！！！！！

啊？

上面是第一次战斗时的描述。第二次交火则是：
Fire was opened at Bismarck at 1846 at a range of 30,300 yards. The table was tuned to ranges obtained from the fore D.C.T. rangefinder and "fine inclination spotting rules" were adopted, each double salvo being spread one unit apart.

看起来仍然是单独采用15尺测距仪（定语the）加上炮术校射。