20L 就本子开始时的0蛋和没折翼的飞机差不多。话说仙鹤的机库有多大？
LeonAlonso 发表于 2011-8-23 15:37 static/image/common/back.gif
翔鹤甩掉驱逐舰，那个典型的机枪兵打针效果
至于翔鹤的防护，我是想说啊，不就是挨了三枚500磅还能 ...
500磅的小炸弹不过227kg，俯冲投掷38mm的优质水平装甲就能防御，能防御这种炸弹的航母倒是很多。
所以最好去找资料。
本帖最后由 飘扬 于 2011-8-23 16:16 编辑
翔鹤级公试排水量29800吨，公试水线长250米，水线宽26米
，公试吃水8.87米，由此计算出的方形系数约为0.52
齐柏林的公试数据根本不存在，也没有最终完工，考虑到二战德国大型水面战舰的超重传统，这个方形系数实际上没法算。从现有的资料看，翔鹤的长宽比大约是9.6:1，而齐柏林大约是8:1左右，舰型上明显比翔鹤更短粗一些。
LeonAlonso 发表于 2011-8-23 15:37 static/image/common/back.gif
翔鹤甩掉驱逐舰，那个典型的机枪兵打针效果
至于翔鹤的防护，我是想说啊，不就是挨了三枚500磅还能 ...
珊瑚海列克的飞行队长不是迷航前报告把1000磅的炸弹扔到翔鹤上了么……
怎么变成500磅了
翔鹤炸弹没少吃，珊瑚海确认3枚，圣克鲁斯确认了4枚
都能以自身动力高速返航
飘扬 发表于 2011-8-23 16:15 static/image/common/back.gif
翔鹤级公试排水量29800吨，公试水线长250米，水线宽26米
，公试吃水8.87米，由此计算出的方形系数约为0.52
...
你还是谈谈翔鹤的优势吧，它们都等着这个。
巴掌 发表于 2011-8-23 15:57 static/image/common/back.gif
500磅的小炸弹不过227kg，俯冲投掷38mm的优质水平装甲就能防御，能防御这种炸弹的航母倒是很多。
所以最 ...
Shokaku实战是经受了1000磅炸弹考验滴，英文维基说有8.5寸（215MM）的水平防护，达到亚码头的水平，我觉得不太可能……（链接：http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shokaku，Shōkaku was 10,000 tons heavier than the Sōryū-class carriers, mainly due to the extra armor incorporated into the ship's design. Vertical protection consisted of 215 mm (8.5 in) on the main armor deck over the machinery, magazines and aviation fuel tanks while horizontal protection consisted of 215 mm (8.5 in) along the waterline belt abreast the machinery spaces reducing to 150 mm (5.9 in) outboard of the magazines）
个人估计，翔鹤级在机舱和弹药库之上的水平装甲厚度应该在85-120MM之间
果然说漏嘴了，是三枚1000磅{:78:}
回复 LeonAlonso 的帖子
那个，仙鹤的机库多大？没人科普一下吗？！{:78:}
akagizuo 发表于 2011-8-23 16:26 static/image/common/back.gif
Shokaku实战是经受了1000磅炸弹考验滴，英文维基说有8.5寸（215MM）的水平防护，达到亚码头的水平，我觉 ...
能抗住1000磅炸弹的水平装甲厚度应该是76mm，英国NCA装甲标准。
yxwd5 发表于 2011-8-23 16:30 static/image/common/back.gif
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那个，仙鹤的机库多大？没人科普一下吗？！
移动硬盘在家里。{:50:}
巴掌 发表于 2011-8-23 16:31 static/image/common/back.gif
能抗住1000磅炸弹的水平装甲厚度应该是76mm，英国NCA装甲标准。
这个厚度的装甲在地中海顶不住德国炸弹
回复 巴掌 的帖子
我说的就是翔鹤的优势啊，你看不出来？
Armour thickness of some World War II era aircraft carriers Class (standard displacement) Flight deck Main deck Side belt
Yorktown class (19,875 tons) n/a 1.5 in (38 mm) 2.5 – 4 in (64 – 101 mm)
Ark Royal class (22,000 tons) .75 in (19 mm) 3.5 in (89 mm) 4.5 in (114 mm)
Illustrious class (23,000 tons) 3 in (76 mm) 2 in (51 mm) 4.5 in (114 mm)
Shōkaku class (25,600 tons) n/a 3.9 in over machinery (99 mm) 1.8 in (46 mm)
Essex class (27,200 tons) n/a 2.5 in (64 mm) 4.75 in (121 mm)
Taiho (29,770 tons) 3.1 in (80 mm) 1.3 in (32 mm) 2.2 in abreast machinery(60 mm)
Implacable class (23,500 tons) 3 in (76 mm) 2.5 in (64 mm) 4.5 in (114 mm)
Shinano (62,000 tons) 3.1 in (80 mm) 3.9 in (99 mm) 5 in (127 mm)
Midway (45,000 tons) 3.5 in (89 mm) 2 in (51 mm) 7.9 in (200 mm)
飘扬 发表于 2011-8-23 16:33 static/image/common/back.gif
回复 巴掌 的帖子
我说的就是翔鹤的优势啊，你看不出来？
这点优势显然不够啊，又整不出个谁更快的结论。
科京同志 发表于 2011-8-23 16:35 static/image/common/back.gif
Armour thickness of some World War II era aircraft carriers Class (standard displacement) Flight dec ...
恩，99MM，和我的估计值差不多，
yxwd5 发表于 2011-8-23 16:30 static/image/common/back.gif
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那个，仙鹤的机库多大？没人科普一下吗？！
日本标准是比苍龙级的增加10架左右，塞下70架飞机问题不大
The Illustrious was hit seven times by 250 kg (500 lb) Semi-Armor Piercing (SAP) bombs. Three bombs hit within feet of each other around the after lift (and later a damaged Stuka), one hit just aft of the forward lift, penetrated the flight deck and exploded starting several fires in the hanger, one penetrated the flight deck, passed out the side then exploded, two hits on AA platforms alongside the flight deck, one of these did not detonate.
Unable to recover her airborne aircraft, they diverted to Malta. Later that afternoon, she was attacked again suffering one additional hit to the previously mauled after lift. At 10:00 pm she berthed in Grand Harbor, Malta. There were still fires burning out of control on the hanger deck and below. Temporary repair were started at Malta, she was attacked again, before moving to Alexandria, then to Norfolk Navy Yard, Virginia for permanent repairs.
On 26 May 1941, HMS Formidable was surprised and attacked by 12 Stukas. They scored three hits with 500 kg (1100 lb, often misreported as 1000 kg) bombs. One hit in the center of the flight deck, penetrating below and exploding in the hanger spaces, the other two penetrated the starboard side causing extensive damage. She retired first to Egypt, then to the US for repairs.
On 12 August 1942, HMS Indomitable was attacked by dive and torpedo bombers, no torpedo hits were scored, but she was hit three times by 500 kg bombs, one hit dead center on the flight deck , one aft of the armor protection and one on the starboard side. Although able to steam at 28 knots, she withdrew for repairs, as she was unable to continue air operations.
In all three cases the carriers were incapable of flight operations until after yard repairs, 4 months for the Illustrious, 6 months for both the Formidable and Imdomitable. Now, it might be unfair to say it took a yard 6 months to fix a hole in the flight deck, as many other repairs and upgrades were also done, but the fact remains, that holing the flight deck effectively put the carrier out of action until she could get to a yard. Further, the armored flight deck did not prevent bombs from getting into the hanger, and the enclosed nature of the hanger, made fire fighting more difficult.
如果这个描述准确的话德国250公斤半穿甲炸弹也击穿了英国的76毫米飞行装甲装甲
但是不会造成 翔鹤那种飞行甲板结构完全失效的情况
akagizuo 发表于 2011-8-23 16:43 static/image/common/back.gif
日本标准是比苍龙级的增加10架左右，塞下70架飞机问题不大
翔鹤的两层机库是实实在在塞了80多架飞机的，而且大多数不折叠机翼。
回复 巴掌 的帖子
你先拿出齐柏林能跑40节的证据再说谁更快吧。就是因为齐柏林的长宽比小于翔鹤1.5以上，这是实实在在的，所以在排水量接近的情况下齐柏林要20万马力才能达到34节。德国科技确实发达，但不是在任何领域都天下无敌的，至少在大型水面舰的舰型设计上，德国人的水平就比日本人差远了。
本帖最后由 巴掌 于 2011-8-23 17:01 编辑
科京同志 发表于 2011-8-23 16:45 http://www.warships.com.cn/static/image/common/back.gif
The Illustrious was hit seven times by 250 kg (500 lb) Semi-Armor Piercing (SAP) bombs. Three bombs...
光辉级的前后升降机位置只有38mm装甲。
光辉级的76mm飞行甲板装甲是设计抵御450kg炸弹的，但是只占飞行甲板一半多些的面积。