找回密码
 登上甲板
搜索

专治各种不服 ----《海军流言终结者》

[复制链接]

列兵

三年服役纪念章

发表于 2021-4-26 10:54 来自手机 | 显示全部楼层
大西洋海况算不算

列兵

三年服役纪念章

发表于 2021-4-26 10:54 来自手机 | 显示全部楼层
这个概念在爱好者里似乎是作为“不能用斗兽等于现实战斗”而被强调的。

列兵

三年服役纪念章

发表于 2021-4-26 10:56 来自手机 | 显示全部楼层
但这个“海况问题”,在部分人眼里,似乎成为了一个神话。 最普遍的谣传恐怕是“IJN舰船到大西洋会翻” (因此有人调侃日本人难道是把足柄拆开了运到英国再拼起来的吗),还有“美国护航航母无法在大西洋使用”(但英国人使用的护航航母也是美国人造的)。如此不一而足。

列兵

二年服役纪念章

发表于 2022-11-27 11:41 | 显示全部楼层
seven_nana 发表于 2013-7-29 23:45
本世纪关于舰炮穿深问题的最大流言

出自舰船知识,2005年第4期

大佬,为什么NW站上存速只有580多

中士

四年服役纪念章

发表于 2022-11-30 22:19 来自手机 | 显示全部楼层
希佩尔•林德曼 发表于 2022-11-27 11:41
大佬,为什么NW站上存速只有580多

那是10000m

上将

十三年服役纪念章TIME TRAVELER功勋勋章钻石金双剑金橡叶铁十字勋章行政立法委骑士团勋章政道纪念章旗手终身荣誉会员

发表于 2022-12-1 12:44 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 mathewwu 于 2024-5-19 20:19 编辑

有关1953年9月北约演习中伊阿华号与前卫号的报道,可信的文字有Malcolm Muir的Iowa-classbattleships一书第31页 ”在北大西洋中伊阿华号曾达到左右各26度的横摇(而同时间前卫号则经历到15度横摇)。”

皇家海军协会2007年10月期刊第18-19页 ”演习遭遇极其恶劣的天后,最后在HMS Diamond和HMS Swiftsure相撞后被迫放弃。前卫号表现亮眼,以26节的航速下还只有12度的横摇…顶着狂风(directly into the gale. 按蒲式风级” gale”是34-40节的风速)船首几乎都能排开浪涛,反观伊阿华号的表现则不怎么好,横摇经常到达26度,连舰桥都被浪花遮蔽了。鹰号也比较大的美军(艾色克斯级)航母较能保持干燥…”

另前卫官网说法也差不多。

1953年9月那场北大西洋的演习,除了证明在高海况下前卫比衣阿华适航性优秀外,两舰根本没有海上炮战科目,对陆火力支援科目也因为海况太恶劣导致撞船事故而取消了。

以上几篇够权威有出处的有关演习的报道,只有描述英国战列舰和航母适航性胜过美舰的故事,没有任何前卫与衣阿华曾经对战的故事,如果真有比出高下,能不大书特书? 英美两国用的是英语,自然以英语资料为准,谣言可以终止了吧。

以下为原文~
实体出版书 Malcolm Muir's Iowa-class battleships, p. 31 :
"During a NATO operation in the North Atlantic in September 1953, the Iowaregistered a 26° roll each way (at the same time, HMS Vanguard experienced a 15° roll)."

皇海协会官刊 The Official Journal of the Royal Navy Association, October 2007, pp. 18-19 :
"After taking her place as Home Fleet flagship in the line at Spithead on 15th June, the September 1953 NATO exercise ‘Mariner’ was the largest to date and covered the entire Atlantic and Channel areas from Norway to Gibraltar. Convoys were formed and escorted against aircraft and submarine attack whilst the Striking fleet moved north towards Denmark Strait in the Greenland-Iceland-UK gap. This comprised USS IOWA, three American cruisers, two ‘Essex’ Class carriers, HMCS Quebec and seventeen destroyers, (including trios of ‘Daring’s’, ‘Weapons’ and ‘Battles’), whilst the Heavy Squadron, comprising HMS Vanguard, Eagle, and Sheffield (replacing Theseus on ‘Flail’ duties), joined from Invergorden. The whole exercise took place in atrocious weather conditions which not only hindered but curtailed many intended operations and ultimately led to abandonment after the collision between HMS Diamond and Swiftsure.
However the 'star' of the show was HMS Vanguard alone able to steam at 26 knots with no more than a 12 degree roll. “With hardly a movement on her and the spray flying out from either bow . . . directly into the gale . . . a magnificent sight that few of us will ever forget”. Interestingly, USS Iowa did not perform nearly so well, frequently rolling to 26 degrees with her bridge hidden in spray. Eagle also appeared drier than the larger American carriers.
HMS Vanguard was later directed towards an enemy raider (HMS Sureswift) and being judged undamaged from a bomb attack by US Skyraider aircraft in error, she proceeded to engage and ‘sink’ the cruiser." (bold emphasis added)

前卫官网 http://battleshiphmsvanguard.homestead.com/19534.html
After summer leave Vanguard left Portsmouth in September for Invergordon, which appeared to have become our northen base. Later in the month we met up with other ships of the Home Fleet and together with elements of the American Fleet, including the battleship USS Iowa, held a NATO exercise called 'Mariner'. The weather we experienced out in the Atlantic and the Denmark Strait was atrocious. Strange as it may seem , I felt quite alright in the roughest of seas but once in calmer waters the gentle roll would upset my stomach. The trouble with Vanguard was that it was so big it would take a considerable time to stop rolling. It was here that Vanguard proved herself. During the exercise she was the only ship that could travel at speed through the rough seas and her performance at this was better than that of the Iowa. After travelling some 800 miles north of John O'Groats we anchored at Greenock on 3 October 1953 at the end of the exercise. A few days later we sailed to Invergordon and then to Portland. Two days later we steamed home to Portsmouth.

后记:十来年前不知在哪发的文,目前已不容易找到,还是藏回老窝的角落里好些。





列兵

十一年服役纪念章

发表于 2023-9-30 16:36 | 显示全部楼层
土豆砸沉潜艇不算什么。理论上,石头可以砸沉二战时期的战列舰,比如某战列舰搭载1000名步兵,准备消灭海上游击队,游击队把战列舰诱骗到一个两边是高高的悬崖海峡里面触礁,悬崖上面游击队用石头砸沉战列舰。

上将

十三年服役纪念章TIME TRAVELER功勋勋章钻石金双剑金橡叶铁十字勋章行政立法委骑士团勋章政道纪念章旗手终身荣誉会员

发表于 2024-5-19 20:16 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 mathewwu 于 2024-5-19 20:17 编辑

106楼后后记:

今天偶然翻到皇海的内参刊物——The Naval Review——1953年9月号,第一篇就是记述该月份举行的北大西洋公约组织《水手演习》,除了论及英美舰只的适航性之外,还比较了两国战情中心(AIO/CIC)的布置,既然是牛牛写的,少不得要吐槽一下大米。抽印本我放在下面(2024-5-19):



本帖子中包含更多资源

您需要 登录 才可以下载或查看,没有账号?登上甲板

×

上士

四年服役纪念章海军及海军陆战队勋章

发表于 2024-5-20 16:35 | 显示全部楼层
mathewwu 发表于 2024-5-19 20:16
106楼后后记:

今天偶然翻到皇海的内参刊物——The Naval Review——1953年9月号,第一篇就是记述该月份举 ...

看来后来的各种横摇数据,最初都来自于这一文章。
耐人寻味的是,文中提到的美舰,稳性参数实际上都优于英舰,特别是“本宁顿”号和“鹰”号的对比——后者的GM数值要比前者低至少0.7m以上,而且受到厚重飞行甲板装甲影响,如果燃油弹药等压舱物装载不足其稳性高度还会严重下降。结果在此文中,英国人竟然敢说“鹰”号几乎没有横摇。

Archiver|手机版|© 2010-2025 战列舰 warships.com.cn, All Rights Reserved ( 沪ICP备13004737号 )

GMT+8, 2025-5-10 02:54 , Processed in 0.021721 second(s), 18 queries .

Powered by Discuz! X3.5

© 2001-2025 Discuz! Team.

快速回复 返回顶部 返回列表