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楼主: 巴掌

布吕歇尔应该编入斯佩分舰队,作用会更大

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中将

十三年服役纪念章TIME TRAVELER银橡叶铁十字勋章行政立法委MP Team骑士团勋章终身荣誉会员

发表于 2011-11-4 19:29 | 显示全部楼层
毛关系,与弹种有关

换成日俄战争时期炮弹试试

少校

十三年服役纪念章杰出服役十字勋章海武魂全球架空纪念章

发表于 2011-11-5 04:03 | 显示全部楼层
回复 akagizuo 的帖子

埃克塞特吃了7-8枚11寸?
记得看泗水海战的时候,埃克塞特主装,各个隔舱加船壳板根本没挡住妙高的8寸。

上尉

十三年服役纪念章旗手

发表于 2011-11-7 13:42 | 显示全部楼层
Zichuan 发表于 2011-11-5 04:03
回复 akagizuo 的帖子

埃克塞特吃了7-8枚11寸?

ServiceOn completion, Exeter joined the 2nd Cruiser Squadron with the Atlantic Fleet, where she served between 1931 and 1935. In 1934 she was assigned to the America and West Indies Station and remained there, with a temporary deployment to the Mediterranean during the Abyssinian crisis of 1935 and 1936, until 1939.

At the outbreak of the Second World War, she formed part of the South American Division with Cumberland, under Commodore Henry Harwood. Together with the Leander class light cruisers Ajax and Achilles she engaged the German pocket battleship Admiral Graf Spee in the Battle of the River Plate on 13 December 1939, which culminated in the scuttling of the Admiral Graf Spee several days later. Exeter operated as a division on her own, Achilles and Ajax as the other, in order to split the fire of Graf Spee. Exeter was hit by seven 11-inch shells and several near misses caused significant splinter damage. Sixty-one of her crew were killed and another twenty-three wounded. All three 8 inch turrets were put out of action and her speed was reduced to 18 knots (33 km/h), forcing her to withdraw from battle
______________ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Exeter_(68)

上尉

十三年服役纪念章旗手

发表于 2011-11-7 13:54 | 显示全部楼层
回复 Zichuan 的帖子

[edit] The battleOn 13 December, the ships sighted each other and closed. Admiral Graf Spee—despite having correctly identified Exeter—initially suspected that the two light cruisers were smaller destroyers and that the British ships were protecting a merchant convoy, the destruction of which would be a major prize. Since Graf Spee′s reconnaissance aircraft was out of service, Langsdorf relied on lookouts for this information. He decided to engage, despite having received a broadly accurate report from the German naval staff on 4 December outlining British activity in the River Plate area. This report included information that Ajax, Achilles, Exeter and Cumberland were patrolling the South American coast. Langsdorf realised too late that he was facing three cruisers. Calling upon the immediate acceleration of his diesel engines, he closed the enemy squadron at 24 kn (28 mph; 44 km/h) in the hope of engaging the steam-driven British ships before they could work up from cruising speed to full power.[6] This strategy may seem an inexplicable blunder. Langsdorf could perhaps have manoeuvered to keep the British ships at a range where he could destroy them with his 11 in (280 mm) guns while remaining out of the effective range of their smaller 6- and 8-inch guns. On the other hand, he knew the British cruisers had a 4–6 kn (4.6–6.9 mph; 7.4–11 km/h) speed advantage over Graf Spee and could in principle stay out of range should they choose to do so—standard cruiser tactics in the presence of a superior force—while calling on reinforcements.


HMSO chart of the engagementThe British executed their battle plan: Exeter turned north-west, while Ajax and Achilles—operating together—turned north-east to spread Graf Spee′s fire. Graf Spee opened fire on Exeter at 19,000 yd (17,000 m) with her six 11 in (280 mm) guns at 06:18. Exeter opened fire at 06:20, Achilles at 06:21, Exeter′s aft guns at 06:22 and Ajax at 06:23. From her opening salvo, Graf Spee′s gunfire proved fairly accurate, her third salvo straddling Exeter. At 06:23, an 11 in (280 mm) shell burst just short of Exeter, abreast the middle of the ship. Splinters from this shell killed the torpedo tubes' crews, damaged the ship's communications, riddled the ship's funnels and searchlights and wrecked the ship's Walrus aircraft just as it was to be launched for gunnery spotting. Three minutes later, Exeter suffered a direct hit in her "B"-turret, putting it and its two guns out of action.[7] Shrapnel swept the bridge, killing or wounding all bridge personnel except the captain and two others. Captain Bell's communications were wrecked. Communications from the aft conning position were also destroyed, and the ship had to be steered via a chain of messengers for the rest of the battle.

Meanwhile, Ajax and Achilles closed to 13,000 yd (12,000 m) and started making in front of Graf Spee, causing her to split her main armament at 06:30, and otherwise use her 5.9 in (150 mm) guns against them. At 06:32, Exeter fired two torpedoes from her starboard tubes but both missed. At 06:37, Ajax launched her spotter aircraft from its catapult. At 06:38, Exeter turned so that she could fire her port torpedoes, and received two more direct hits from 11 in (280 mm) shells. One hit "A"-turret and put it out of action, the other entered the hull and started fires. At this point Exeter was severely damaged, having only "Y"-turret still in action, a 7° list, was being flooded and being steered with the use of her small boat's compass. In return, one of Exeter′s 8 in (200 mm) shells penetrated two decks, then exploded in Graf Spee′s funnel area — destroying her raw fuel processing system and leaving her with just 16 hours fuel, insufficient to allow her to return home.

Thus, from 06:38, Graf Spee was doomed; she could not make the fuel system repairs (of this complexity) under fire. Two-thirds of her anti-aircraft guns were knocked out as well as one of her secondary turrets. There were no friendly naval bases within reach. She was not seaworthy and could make only the neutral port of Montevideo.[8]

At approximately 06:36, Admiral Graf Spee hauled around from an easterly course, now behind Ajax and Achilles, toward the northwest and laid smoke. This position brought Langsdorf roughly parallel to Exeter. By 06:50, Exeter listed heavily to starboard, taking water forward. Nevertheless, she still steamed at full speed and fired with her one remaining turret. Forty minutes later, water splashed in by an 11 in (280 mm) near-miss short-circuited Exeter′s electrical system for that turret. Captain Bell was forced to break off action. This would have been the opportunity to finish off Exeter. Instead, the combined fire of Ajax and Achilles drew Langsdorf's attention as both ships closed.[9]

At 06:56, Ajax and Achilles turned to starboard to bring all their guns to bear, at 07:10 causing Admiral Graf Spee to turn away and lay a smokescreen. At 07:10, the two light cruisers turned to reduce the range from 8 mi (7.0 nmi; 13 km), even though this meant only their forward guns could fire. At 07:16, Graf Spee turned to port and headed straight for the heavily damaged Exeter, but fire from Ajax and Achilles forced her at 07:20 to turn and fire her 11 in (280 mm) guns at them, who turned to starboard to bring all their guns to bear. Ajax turned to starboard at 07:24 and fired her torpedoes at a range of 4.5 mi (3.9 nmi; 7.2 km), causing Graf Spee to turn away under a smokescreen. At 07:25, Ajax was hit by an 11 in (280 mm) shell that put "X"-turret out of action and jammed "Y"-turret, causing some casualties. By 07:40, Ajax and Achilles were running low on resources and the British decided to change tactics, moving to the east under a smokescreen. Harwood decided to shadow Admiral Graf Spee and try to attack at night when he could attack with torpedoes and better utilise his advantage of speed and manoeuvrability while minimising his deficiencies in armour. Ajax was again hit by an 11 in (280 mm) shell that destroyed her mast and caused some casualties. Graf Spee continued on a south-westward course.
_______________http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_River_Plate
3个炮塔都被敲掉,B炮塔的命中还摧残舰桥,几发近失弹也带来严重损毁,切断电力线路,损毁飞机,鱼雷管组员,探照灯……
要不是两条CL拼死相救,埃克塞特就过去了……

少校

十三年服役纪念章杰出服役十字勋章海武魂全球架空纪念章

发表于 2011-11-7 21:30 | 显示全部楼层
回复 akagizuo 的帖子

3个炮塔都被敲掉,B炮塔的命中还摧残舰桥,几发近失弹也带来严重损毁,切断电力线路,损毁飞机,鱼雷管组员,探照灯……
要不是两条CL拼死相救,埃克塞特就过去了……
Is that you called have no pressure?

中将

十三年服役纪念章TIME TRAVELER银橡叶铁十字勋章行政立法委MP Team骑士团勋章终身荣誉会员

发表于 2011-11-7 21:46 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 STG44突击步枪 于 2011-11-7 21:49 编辑

和弹种、命中点有关,日本发现打商船,203炮弹还没127好用,难道可以证明203威力不如127的高爆弹吗?

孟加拉湾压制

 因为十七年二月十五日占领了新加坡,三月九日攻略了爪哇岛,负责马来方面的小泽中将麾下的马来部队的作战出现了空闲。小泽长官决定开展孟加拉湾方面的通商破坏战。
 兵力是以鸟海和7战队为主力,打算在分成三个区域的印度东海岸纵横驰骋。
 攻击部队被分成了三队。北方队熊野、铃谷、白云三艘,中央队鸟海、由良、龙骧、夕雾、朝雾五艘,南方队三隈、最上、天雾三艘,各自扫荡南北约二○○公里的海域。
 四月六日,分散在作战海域的各队,捕捉到前往加尔各答方面输送军需物资的运输船,一网打尽的击沉了。
 北方队发现八艘敌人运输船八艘,立即炮击击沉,取得了约六六,○○○吨的战果。
 这时击沉一艘运输船消耗的平均弹数,二○厘米穿甲弹约七五发,一二·七厘米通常弹约六五发。
 商船用穿甲弹怎么也不沉没。倒不如瞬间弹产生的火灾造成快沉,这个有效性是这次作战宝贵的经验。穿甲弹只是穿透薄的船体很难爆炸。
 中央队的战果特别大。击沉六艘商船、二艘油船,共计约四二,○○○吨。更加上大破八艘商船约四七,○○○吨。还爆破了陆上的二座油库、二栋仓库。
 南方队击沉了五艘商船,约二九,○○○吨。
 各队扫除了猎物后,翌七日汇合返回新加坡途,马来部队没有损害。一天的行动取得击沉共计二一艘,大破八艘的战果,这在整个太平洋战争时期中是最大的,这清清楚楚地显示出了重巡的炮力的战果。

中将

十三年服役纪念章TIME TRAVELER银橡叶铁十字勋章行政立法委MP Team骑士团勋章终身荣誉会员

发表于 2011-11-7 22:00 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 STG44突击步枪 于 2011-11-7 22:12 编辑

怎么说呢,虽然我没有直接证据证明此直观印象

占据优势地位海军,炮弹通常设置敏感,因为敌舰只要被击伤后就难逃追杀。

居于劣势地位的海军,炮弹通常设置迟钝,更把希望寄托于秒杀,因为仅仅击伤敌舰不能造成永久性损失,敌方完全可以立即退出战列,修一修又是一条好汉。

少校

十三年服役纪念章杰出服役十字勋章海武魂全球架空纪念章

发表于 2011-11-7 22:23 | 显示全部楼层
回复 STG44突击步枪 的帖子

这就是英德海军和美日海军的区别呀.

上尉

十三年服役纪念章旗手

发表于 2011-11-9 10:08 | 显示全部楼层
Zichuan 发表于 2011-11-7 21:30
回复 akagizuo 的帖子

3个炮塔都被敲掉,B炮塔的命中还摧残舰桥,几发近失弹也带来严重损毁,切断电力线路 ...

我前面表述的是埃克塞特挨了7,8枚11寸还能开回去的鸭梨不大,实际也确实如此
而埃克塞特在爪哇,被一枚IJN的8寸就搞瘫了,第二天就被收尸了
没有对i日舰取得任何伤害,打斯佩时还把斯佩燃料舱废了,造成斯佩逃跑不能……

少校

十三年服役纪念章杰出服役十字勋章海武魂全球架空纪念章

发表于 2011-11-9 22:50 | 显示全部楼层
回复 akagizuo 的帖子

你说:“要不是两条CL拼死相救,埃克塞特就过去了……”看来你对压力不大的要求还真低.

列兵

十二年服役纪念章

发表于 2011-12-5 15:37 | 显示全部楼层
巴掌 发表于 2010-12-2 20:50
航速无需超过其它国家重巡,一样足以,装甲和火力超过即可。

从拉普拉塔河口之战的经验来看,德意志即便 ...

这样很危险,因为英国人可以跟踪你

不打你,远距离跟踪

英国舰队最大航速32节

斯佩伯爵号只有26节

然后英国人源源不断的呼叫援军

最后还是悲剧....

所以......斯佩伯爵号的唯一出路就是杀人灭口.........

利用敌人支援没赶到的时间差

干掉G支队,然后逃之夭夭...
夹着尾巴做人.........

一等兵

十三年服役纪念章

发表于 2011-12-7 16:03 | 显示全部楼层
感觉专用破交舰最应注意的依旧是防护特别是动力系统的防护.此外单舰排水量过大多少有浪费之嫌,毕竟一艘3W吨的船的侦搜能力不比一艘1W吨的船要强。
. . .

列兵

发表于 2011-12-10 09:46 | 显示全部楼层
回复 巴掌 的帖子

其实应把戈本编进去

上士

十二年服役纪念章政道纪念章

发表于 2011-12-12 21:13 | 显示全部楼层
應該是把斯佩分舰队编入公海艦隊更為實際吧 ^^

二等兵

十二年服役纪念章

发表于 2011-12-15 21:28 | 显示全部楼层
一支海上破交舰队哪需要那么强大的兵力,
要不是斯佩当年拖了一个多月才准备回国,
还打算“教训”英国人,
那至于落此下场啊。

上士

十二年服役纪念章政道纪念章

发表于 2011-12-16 10:26 | 显示全部楼层
我的想法是要麼把斯佩分舰队調回德國, 加強公海艦隊
要麼就把大部份的裝巡,戰巡都編入斯佩分舰队,
這樣便可以實施大規模通商破壞戰, 同時分散英帝大艦隊的實力
當然青島基地並不安全, 又沒有海外基地為艦隊補給, 只有完全依賴補給艦

少校

十三年服役纪念章旗手

发表于 2011-12-16 11:29 | 显示全部楼层
回复 mohicans 的帖子

还是把大部分装巡和战巡给斯配比较好,就斯配舰队那点东西,到了公海舰队也强化不到哪去。

少校

十三年服役纪念章旗手

发表于 2011-12-16 11:31 | 显示全部楼层
回复 巨舰与大炮 的帖子

感觉就算不拖时间,斯配也很难会本土,被战巡跟上就完蛋。

中尉

十三年服役纪念章全球架空纪念章

发表于 2011-12-16 11:37 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 fridarx 于 2011-12-16 11:39 编辑
yxwd5 发表于 2011-12-16 11:31
回复 巨舰与大炮 的帖子

感觉就算不拖时间,斯配也很难会本土,被战巡跟上就完蛋。 ...


只要它存在,就能牵制英国的兵力,

可以考虑开到东非,和德军在东非的部队配合作战。实在不行就北上阿拉伯半岛,配合土耳其在阿拉伯地区的作战,必要时在阿拉伯半岛弃舰上陆,穿过沙漠去土耳其。毕竟是数千精干的军人,在阿拉伯地区能发挥些作用。
佛性本清净,何处有尘埃?

上士

十二年服役纪念章政道纪念章

发表于 2011-12-16 13:24 | 显示全部楼层
弃舰上陆 ??!! 讓人想起大和號

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